I can't pick up a copy of HiFi World these days without Noel Keywood singing the Sabre Dacs praises. I've never heard one, just curious if Noel's glowing praise is justified. I see that the chipset is even finding it's way into mobile phones now, admittedly at the top of the market. Show Hal55 The Black Adder 07-11-2015, 06:08 I have never heard one but I would be careful about HIFI world articles... well, I am anyway. Does it have any relation to the Audiophonics Saber DAC? peter312 07-11-2015, 08:30 I have recently picked up an Audiolab CD player containing a Sabre DAC and I am very impressed with the sound. The treble is particularly clean (I don't mean prominent or piercing), not at all grainy. It is a good balance with my Arcam amp although I'd probably find it a bit bright it I paired it with a righted sounding amp. I gather that's an Audiolab trait. Sabre DACs are pretty good sounding in that they punch well above their weight. I heard one two years ago in a DIY enclosure with DIY power supply. We put it up against a well known mid priced DAC at the time and it was better...marginally. It exhibited good smooth behaviour in the HF but retained good detail and balance and clarity throughout the audible band. Whether that was down to the quality power supply of the DIY effort and having it in a separate enclosure I don't know, but every now and then, a reasonably good product at a reasonable price comes along and hifi journalists (some of them) tend to make it into the next big thing. Good, but not game changing were my thoughts at the time, and I have since heard better (from Rega) albeit at considerably more money. Sabre DACs seem to offer good performance at reasonable cost. I understood it was inappropriate for audio use as there's too much going on at rf and higher for its own good (it's a 'fast' video chip I believe). Whether that's true or not, the fact that Westlake has designed dac's based on it, re-written firmware countless times and then jumped ship from Audiolab, leaving them to try to reverse engineer their products - apparently - is enough to put me off, frankly.. These days for me, if a dac allows the music signal to come through as unfettered as possible, I couldn't give a sh*t what's inside to be honest. I also like products that gently evolve over years rather than be replaced or updated with the next best thing every six weeks ;) Digital audio for domestic consumption has been good for a good while now imo. StanleyB 07-11-2015, 11:47 The Sabre DAC chip is actually several medium performance DAC substrates that are wired in parallel in order to improve the overall performance. But to sing its praises is going too far. I haven't yet heard from anyone who could tell me that my own CMII DAC with one of the firmware updates could not match or surpass the performance of one of the better known Sabre DACs. They say a picture tells a thousand words, so here is the picture. http://www.homehifi.co.uk/aos/1556.JPG I would not get to hung up about it, the dac chip itself is just a small piece of the sonic signature of a dac. The design of the power supplies and output stages have a bigger influence on a dacs sound. Clive197 07-11-2015, 14:53 There is a 32Bit ESS Sabre DAC in my OPPO BDP-105D and it sounds good but the 24bit DAC in my Cyrus Pre sounds better IMO. This opinion was formulated using headphones and swapping them between the OPPO and the Cyrus (using the digital output of the OPPO into the Pre2DAC Qx. Actually I Don't think it's the DAC chip that makes such a difference but the way it's implemented within the circuit. Starterman 07-11-2015, 17:18 I have been disappointed by every Sabre based DAC I've heard to date. I've had the following in my system at home: Audiolab MDAC Aurallick Vega Benchmark DAC2 HDR A couple of others (can't remember the names) All except the MDAC were tried with a very expensive music server (and a $1K cable) as well as my old Arcam Alpha+ as transport. I now use a Pi and IQ Audio DAC+, which I am very happy with. Where's the logic in that? :-) I now use a Pi and IQ Audio DAC+, which I am very happy with. Where's the logic in that? :-) Clearly time to try the Sabre DAC board with your Pi ;) I have been disappointed by every Sabre based DAC I've heard to date. I've had the following in my system at home: Audiolab MDAC Aurallick Vega Benchmark DAC2 HDR A couple of others (can't remember the names) All except the MDAC were tried with a very expensive music server (and a $1K cable) as well as my old Arcam Alpha+ as transport. I now use a Pi and IQ Audio DAC+, which I am very happy with. Where's the logic in that? :-) change the cable / source ? ;) As you can see from the ESS site (http://www.esstech.com/index.php/products/dac/), there is a range of ESS Sabre DACs. I really like them. Both my Peachtree DAT-IT (http://www.peachtreeaudio.com/dac-it-digital-to-analog-converter.html), and the Audiophonic DAC board (http://www.audiophonics.fr/en/kits-modules-diy-dac/audiophonics-i-sabre-dac-es9023-tcxo-raspberry-pi-a-b-20-i2s-p-10296.html) on my Raspberry, have Sabre DAC and I love the natural sound they produce. The Peachtree is much better than the Mission DAC5 (http://www.audio-extasa.eu/mission-dac5-da-converter-p-1489.html), Arcam Black Box 3 (http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/182190-arcam_delta_black_box_3_bitstream_dac/images/236954/), and Musical Fidelity VDAC (http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/hi-fi-accessories/musical-fidelity-v-dac-674055/review) that preceded it. That shows you the range of DACs I've spent much time with. In the �300-700 price range, I think they're really good value. However, I am looking forward to stepping up to the next level of splendidness as funds become available in Reggie Towers. Starterman 07-11-2015, 19:26 change the cable / source ? ;) Even repeated pressing of the little button on the exotic cable made no difference (and yes I checked the battery): http://www.audioquest.com/seventy-five-ohm/wild-digital Maybe I should have tried a few KV of bias? Seriously though, I could tell no difference between the Audioquest Wind and my home-made cable with either the Aurender or the (clocked) Arcam and any of the DACs. I have heard differences between SPDIF cables before but not in this case. I also did a sort of blind listening (not particularly scientific) test on a friend and he was very definite about which one he preferred - not the Aural lick!! Starterman 07-11-2015, 19:30 Clearly time to try the Sabre DAC board with your Pi ;) I am tempted, but as I said in Marco's thread I don't want another bit of junk in my hifi castoffs cupboard. There again, in the that case the Pi/IQDAC+ has not been anywhere near the junk box (yet). I am tempted, but as I said in Marco's thread I don't want another bit of junk in my hifi castoffs cupboard. Can't say I blame you; I tried it and found little difference to write home about (if in fact any) - just less versatile than the IQaudio one. It has indeed found it's way to the odds n sods box ... Richard Kimber 02-12-2015, 13:29 I understood it was inappropriate for audio use as there's too much going on at rf and higher for its own good (it's a 'fast' video chip I believe). Whether that's true or not, the fact that Westlake has designed dac's based on it, re-written firmware countless times and then jumped ship from Audiolab, leaving them to try to reverse engineer their products - apparently - is enough to put me off, frankly.. I think John Westlake moved from Audiolab for other reasons. He is currently designing a follow-up to the MDAC which, I believe, contains two ESS chips, one for each channel. - Richard. I think John Westlake moved from Audiolab for other reasons. He is currently designing a follow-up to the MDAC which, I believe, contains two ESS chips, one for each channel. Indeed Richard, isn't this to be the FDAC...? I'm struggling to keep up :) I have an early MDAC, and JW upgraded it to 'L2 Toy' upgrade level, this will only mean anything to followers of the MDAC thread on PFM...or if you've had one upgraded yourself. I have 2 more Sabre DACs, in addition to the MDAC, a HiFimeDIY U2 asynchronous, and an Audiophonics Pi DAC board I don't think one can make a judgement on the quality of the DAC chip alone, I suppose the upgraded MDAC shows the potential of the sabre chip, the HiFimeDIY shows the VFM (@ �35), with the Audiophonics somewhere in between... Probably the most legitimate comparison is between my IQaudio Pi DAC (Burr Brown 32bit), and my Audiophonics Pi DAC (Sabre 24bit)...and I think I'd be hard pushed to judge either way, I'd need to do some serious A/B listening, and frankly I can't be bothered ;) The DAC chip itself is only a small part of the overall DAC package IMHO Richard Kimber 03-12-2015, 13:08 Indeed Richard, isn't this to be the FDAC...? I'm struggling to keep up :) Yes it is. I have an early MDAC, and JW upgraded it to 'L2 Toy' upgrade level, this will only mean anything to followers of the MDAC thread on PFM...or if you've had one upgraded yourself. Yes, I have the Premium Fusion version. It's excellent. I have 2 more Sabre DACs, in addition to the MDAC, a HiFimeDIY U2 asynchronous, and an Audiophonics Pi DAC board I don't think one can make a judgement on the quality of the DAC chip alone, I suppose the upgraded MDAC shows the potential of the sabre chip, the HiFimeDIY shows the VFM (@ �35), with the Audiophonics somewhere in between... Probably the most legitimate comparison is between my IQaudio Pi DAC (Burr Brown 32bit), and my Audiophonics Pi DAC (Sabre 24bit)...and I think I'd be hard pushed to judge either way, I'd need to do some serious A/B listening, and frankly I can't be bothered ;) The DAC chip itself is only a small part of the overall DAC package IMHO Absolutely. The analogue output section is really the key. - Richard. Agree fully that it's not a particular DAC chip that wins or flaws a particular product! It's the implementation. That said i really liked what i heard from the ES9016 in my previous Pioneer N-70A and also from the ES9018K2M in my current S.M.S.L M8 "cheap as chips" DAC... Dont know what part the reciever chip plays but i have a notion that it affects audio quality more than the DAC chip itself. /Mike I would not get to hung up about it, the dac chip itself is just a small piece of the sonic signature of a dac. The design of the power supplies and output stages have a bigger influence on a dacs sound. +1. I think I recall reading on the Lampizator website that the DAC chip accounted for about 10% of the quality of the final product. Having said that I have two items with the 9018 chip. The Oppo 105 is justly well regarded, and the chip must contribute to that. The standalone Wyred4Sound DAC with exactly the same chip is a good measure above that again. walpurgis 06-12-2015, 00:30 I know nothing about the ESS DAC. But this thread reminded me of ESS loudspeakers (different company, I'm sure) which were amazing. Check out the ESS AMT1 Tower. Stunning! I've heard them. The AMT stands for the Air Motion Transformer folded ribbon mid/tweeter made by Heil. Fantastic device. Is ESS Sabre a good DAC?SABRE DACs have consistently been selected for award-winning devices from the world's leading audiophile system providers. Who makes ESS Sabre DAC?ESS Technology Incorporated is a private manufacturer of computer multimedia products, Audio DACs and ADCs based in Fremont, California with R&D centers in Kelowna, BC, Canada and Beijing, China. It was founded by Forrest Mozer in 1983. Robert L. Blair is the CEO and President of the company. What is audiophile ESS DAC?ESS Technology SABRE® Digital-to-Analog Converters (DACs) are highly-integrated, 32-bit, and 24-bit audio solutions targeted for premium home theater equipment, professional audio workstations, and studio equipment. Is ESS better than AKM?But the main difference in sound quality lies in different tuning styles between AKM and ESS. According to the feedback from most audiophiles after listening to both of them, AKM is more musical, while ESS is of higher quality. There is no better or worse between them. |
