Other Parts Discussed in Thread: Z-STACK, CC2530 Show Hi All, I am new to Z-Stack and TI forum. What is the largest number of nodes in network with 1 router (and more that 1 routers) that can be practically realized using Z-Stack 2.3.0 and SoC CC2530? Is it limitation number of routers in one network? Best Regards, Genzi jspaarg  Super Member
I believe that the maximum number of nodes is about 200 (I'm not sure why). Does anyone know of a way to get about 600 nodes ontol a single connection, or do I need to make three different connections each with 200 nodes? THanks PM personal questions and observations only. Keep technical questions to the forums where everyone can benefit. Artic Super Member
RE: Maximum Nodes 2006/04/26 14:24:19 (permalink) Hi, So you'll have to make a number of gateways,etc to get all your 600 nodes on a network. I would suggest that you think about zoning the nodes/network to make your life simple. (Based on Frame ID's) Hope it helps Artic jspaarg Super Member
RE: Maximum Nodes 2006/04/26 14:40:00 (permalink) Thanks Artic, By "gateway" do you mean something like CAN to Ethernet; or is it something else? I am using extended packets and IDs on this are the serial number of the device being accessed, so zoning them in that regard doesn't help. However, I was thinking that I might have to use a number of CAN cards in a PC (I was thinking threee, perhaps I should be thinking six); and each card would connect to its own node of 100 or so devices. Thanks. Don't forget the gateway question. PM personal questions and observations only. Keep technical questions to the forums where everyone can benefit. Artic Super Member
RE: Maximum Nodes 2006/04/27 02:14:17 (permalink) Hi jspaarg, Sorry about the "gateway" term. Gateway in this case would be a CAN-to-CAN link. I would avoid the use of a PC as the main interface unless you have no other choice. The PC is good, but rubbish at fast real-time applications (esp running with ZX80 Windows). Even tho you have 600+ nodes on the system , I expect most of these nodes would be "simple" in terms of CAN bus control systems (eg no network management needed, no node sleep,etc,etc) I would use a fast dsPIC and multiple MCP2515 engines to act as the Network Hub, or (dare i say it) use another embedded controller with multiple CAN interfaces (Philips, or whatever they are call now, have a nice range) Cheers Artic jspaarg Super Member
RE: Maximum Nodes 2006/04/27 04:51:21 (permalink) Correct, no management, about 100 of the nodes are sophisticated controllers which will receive commands from a controlling system (most likely a PC). The other 400-500 are sensors. The controllers are running at 20K, the sensors probably will also. Ultimately, the sensor data has to get to the PC and the PC is responsible for generating commands to the controllers. There is minimal realtime requirements, so the PC is fine. Does the hub operate by monitoring multiple nodes and then collating the info into a single transmission to the PC? Can't I accomplish the same thing by having multiple CAN cards in a PC? I am looking for fast (calendar fast, not processing fast) solutions. This is for a one-of project that has to be done in less than four months and the CAN is only a small part of the overall system. The fact that we have to design sensor interfaces is about all we can afford engineering time for on the CAN part of the system. PM personal questions and observations only. Keep technical questions to the forums where everyone can benefit. Guest Super Member
RE: Maximum Nodes 2006/04/27 05:28:38 (permalink) if you are not afraid by soldering the following chip could extend your net, it is made for do their say... I have more or less the same probleme, see my post : Apr. 10, 2006 9:46:31 AM I have just read that you do not want to develop even for a 20$ hardware , but it's only one chip, no software... post edited by jeantet - 2006/04/27 05:49:39 jspaarg Super Member
RE: Maximum Nodes 2006/04/27 06:24:47 (permalink) Thanks for info jeantet. No I am not afraid of soldering, but this chip looks like just a standard transceiver except that it can read from and drive two different CAN buses. That doesn't increase the number of nodes that I can have on one bus. It does allow for one controller to monitor two nodes. I could use three of these to monitor six nodes, but then I have to write that software and create a board and packaging, etc. I'm not kidding when I say I will be happy to spend $2500 to buy a complete solution even if I could make a board for $50. PM personal questions and observations only. Keep technical questions to the forums where everyone can benefit. Guest Super Member
RE: Maximum Nodes 2006/04/27 06:43:53 (permalink) See Figure 2: Application Diagram CAN-Bus Repeater from the the application schematics 6.2 page 3 of the datasheethttp://www.amis.com/pdf/amis_42700_ds.pdf If you believe it , you could have the can bus "1" from your computer, and on this can bus "1" you can link , solder, up to 100 "amis-42700" , 100*100 = 10000 So you need only 6 of these Amis-42700 (probably for free) to have 600 end nodes. Is not it ? Sorry for my english... Artic Super Member
RE: Maximum Nodes 2006/04/27 06:48:12 (permalink) Hi, The HUB would do as you suggested - Run the CAN network, collate the data and send a packet of data back to the PC when requested. It would also operate in reverse and distribute the processed commands the across CAN network to the nodes. As to which is a better solution? (Hub/PC Card) It really depends on how much time you have available for the project. (not much by the sound of it). Either solution will include a PC (pure speed) - but with a hub solution the PC would comm using USB,etc and would prob run on any kind of PC platform. A PC Card solution is also valid, but really requires a specific PC/Driver/Hardware solution. Cheers Artic jspaarg Super Member
RE: Maximum Nodes 2006/04/27 09:07:43 (permalink) Your English is fine. I am not sure that I see how these solve my problem. Each transceiver accesses two CAN nodes. I doubt that I can tie the receive and transmit lines to each other as there are bound to be collisions. Again, "free" is not an issue. PM personal questions and observations only. Keep technical questions to the forums where everyone can benefit. castlerock Starting Member
RE: Maximum Nodes 2006/04/27 11:31:00 (permalink) Wow, those AMIS parts are something I have been looking for! From browsing the Datasheet it looks like JEANTET was right, you should be able to use the IC as a CAN repeater. From what I understand reading the datasheet, every message present on CAN1 will be sent on CAN2, and vice versa. So essentially you would only need one CAN interface at the PC side (internal or external) and a CAN repeater (AMIS IC) between every 100 nodes or so. The CAN repeater is nothing more than the IC (wired as in the application schematics 6.2 page 3 of the datasheet) and a voltage regulator >> NO software or anything! The AMIS chip apears to handle the rest itself! This sounds like just what you are looking for. Sounds like something worth trying? I wish I had a pressing assignment using so many CAN nodes to experiment with myself, but my project list is not getting any smaller these days (and none is using CAN at the moment). As I said before, I have never used these parts, the above information was pulled only from the datasheet, so I could be wrong (somebody verify please). Has anybody here ever used these chips? "Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot." Guest Super Member
RE: Maximum Nodes 2006/04/27 12:16:05 (permalink)
the way I andrestand it is : and this way a such chip between two canbus double the capacity, the number of node... It seems to me that THIS mode of operation, you have 3 modes, is the one that you need, is not it ? May be I missed something... explain me... I know that my english is bad... y.j. jspaarg Super Member
RE: Maximum Nodes 2006/04/27 13:29:14 (permalink) You are correct, I must have scrolled past figure 2 in section 6.1. It looks like exactly what I want. The datasheet is labelled "preliminary" PM personal questions and observations only. Keep technical questions to the forums where
everyone can benefit. hqsystems Super Member
RE: Maximum Nodes 2006/04/29 11:19:06 (permalink) Jspaarg, don't overlook the maximum dominant time of the Amis. What is the maximum number of nodes ZA Z-Wave network can consist of up to 232 devices, or up to 4,000 nodes on a single smart-home network with Z-Wave LR. Both allow the option of bridging networks if more devices are required. A device must be "included" to the Z-Wave network before it can be controlled via Z-Wave.
How do you find the maximum number of nodes?A tree has maximum nodes if all levels have maximum nodes. So maximum number of nodes in a binary tree of height h is 1 + 2 + 4 + .. + 2h-1. This is a simple geometric series with h terms and sum of this series is 2h– 1.
What are ZThe Z-Wave network layer controls how data is exchanged between different devices (nodes) on the network, it consists of three sub-layers. Media Access Layer (MAC): Controls the basic usage of the wireless hardware - these functions are invisible to the end user.
How many devices does ZWhen a Z-Wave hub receives a command from a smart home application on a user's smartphone, tablet or computer, it routes the command to its destination device across networks of up to 232 devices -- including the hub.
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